© Lesley Bohm / © Vicki McFadden

One year ago at this time, as Guiding Light fans and its cast and crew were handed down the news of its cancellation – right in the middle of the telling of the super-duper popular same-sex love story of Otalia – its loyal fan base and its actors were devastated. Crystal Chappell determined to continue to cultivate the LGBT audience that has had little depiction of their life stories seen on daytime television decided to take matters into her own hands, and take what started out as a love story on network TV and transfer parts of it into a new and uncharted territory for soap operas… web soaps. Partnering with her long-time friend Kim Turrisi, the dynamic duo created Venice, which gave legions of fans worldwide an opportunity for them to see the magic re-created once again by Crystal and her on-screen partner, Jessica Leccia, but with a new twist!

Crystal and Kim chatted with On-Air On-Soaps for this exclusive, in-depth, and heartfelt interview as a thank you letter to all the fans, and those who helped Venice along the way, and were instrumental in making it a global phenomenon. And while season one did not go off without some major and minor glitches, the gals open up and discuss the perils, agony, and ecstasy of pulling off something so rare, and of such magnitude, to satisfy a rabid and adoring fan base. And through it all, how they remained true to the characters and the stories they set out to tell. There are some major announcements contained below, some behind-the-scenes snippets never before revealed, and so much more. Congratulations to all on Venice. We were happy to be part of the ride of season one, and look forward to an even more exciting second season. So, read on!

MICHAEL:

The two of you have gone through the process of season one, and those in the know were aware that there were some things that were easier to accomplish than others.  What was the easy part and what were the moments that you were, for a lack of a better word, in shock over?

CRYSTAL:

Let me timeline it first.  It started a year ago on April 1^st and with Big Purple Dreams and Destini.  She did some amazing pod casts for that site with Otalia, and she encouraged me to get on Twitter.

MICHAEL:

So, Destini is actually to blame for your addiction to Twitter?

CRYSTAL:

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Yes, and it’s her fault, really. (Laughs)  And I am glad I took her advice, because it gave people a place to go.  And for the Otalia fans, at that point, we conceived the web story of Venice and laid out these characters from all walks of life.  So it was a great way to talk about Venice and take Otalia and give them a new home.  Then, I convinced Kimmy to Twitter and that is my fault, I will take that one! (Laughs)

MICHAEL:

What was the point when you knew in your heart you needed to keep the Otalia characters going in some fashion?

CRYSTAL:

We got the notice of Guiding Light’s cancellation on April 1^st, and someone mentioned we would stop shooting mid-August, and that is when we ended.  Knowing it was coming to an end, I called P&G and I suggested to them, either take us to As the World Turns or create a web series.  I had wanted to do something on the web for a long time and this seemed to be a perfect opportunity to do that, and give the Otalia fans a new home.

MICHAEL:

Once you were looking for a new home, it wasn’t easy!

CRYSTAL:

I felt like the only place to go was the web, and it’s the only place where we could take a show like Venice and have the creative freedom to tell story like we want to tell it.  But it was obvious to me that social networking was the way to get the message out there, and guide people in the way we’d hope they would go.  That was a year ago last week, and they jumped and they were so happy.  Personally, I know I felt, “Ok, this is the right thing to do.”

KIM:

And through Twitter, I started this Twitter banter with a person, who is a Florida Gator, and I am a Florida State Seminole.  We started this back and forth sort of thing.  And then she emailed me.  She is a genius when it comes to social networking and the web, and she reached out to me.  Her nickname was “Stu” and she said, “I am actually going to be in California.  I have an idea for you, if you want to meet me.”  And so I met her for a drink, and she was so smart and she talked about Facebook, and she said she wanted to do a Facebook page for me and Crystal.  She told me she was going to do this with another person nicknamed “Junk”, and they created our Facebook. They told us they were going to go live.  Crystal and I were watching this going, “Oh, my gosh,” and it gave them another place to take this Otalia storyline.  And with Venice, it mushroomed and exploded, and that was through a Twitter connection.  They are part of our team to this day and are amazing.

Courtesy/Venice

MICHAEL:

When was Kimmy on board for writing season one of Venice?

CRYSTAL:

I spoke to her a week after Guiding Light was canceled, which would be a year go this week.

MICHAEL:

What was your take away from the end of Otalia, and portraying the love of these two women, Olivia and Natalia?

CRYSTAL:

It’s really magical when two women in the most loving respectful way can play something this meaningful.  Jessica Leccia and I are both, ‘girl’s girl’, and there was never any ….alright I just came out.   I love kissing her, too (Laughs)

KIM:

I loved watching it!  As soon as Crystal came on the show, she is my best friend, so whatever show she is on I watch.  I watched her on Days of our Lives when she was on, and when she went over to Guiding Light. I fell madly in love with that storyline.  I could not believe it.   I remember when she called and said, “You are not going to believe my new storyline.”  And it was shocking!  I was so proud of the way it was played out, and it was so believable. Crystal shared some of the letters she had gotten, and some of the letters we get on a daily basis with Venice, and it all goes back to the core. And the core is the Otalia fans.  They are the ones, who with all the little glitches that continued to go wrong, said, “We were on this adventure”. And they are the ones who stuck with us through thick and thin, even though Jessica and Crystal were not going to be the ones that were together in Venice. They invested in these two women and that was amazing!

MICHAEL:

Kim, as a writer, weren’t there some things you would have liked to have seen written differently in the Otalia storyline, or where you went, “I can write this better?”

KIM:

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I will admit I thought there were some moments that were missed opportunities. What I said was, “God, I would love to have these two women and write for them somewhere else where somebody doesn’t say, “Whoops, you can’t do that.”  Oh, for sure.   Their chemistry is what it is.  I don’t care, straight or gay, you can’t watch those two on-screen be together; it could be having sex, kissing or just talking, and they have that kind of chemistry.  As a writer, you just dream to have that happen. Yeah, I watched a couple of moments and went, “Jesus, I want them.”

MICHAEL:

So what was the next hurdle in the Venice journey?

CRYSTAL:

Sometime during the summer, Hope Royaltey got in touch with me.  She had heard about Venice and knew we were creating a series for the web, and called to be part of the team as more of a technical person and also a co-director. I did not know anything about creating a website.  I knew how to surf the web and shop!  I did not know about bandwidth and what not.  Then that led us into pre-production, and production in October.  But here is where it gets to be really amazing.  I want people to understand that this group of people worked tirelessly for nothing.  I know the fans appreciate everything, and I feel I need to mention certain people’s name who helped us along the way.  There is a lovely associate producer, Kim Di Tomasso, who has a very big day job, and she has been on board from the beginning, not only a kind person, but smart.  We would call her in a panic and say, “I need a Venice logo on some panties.”  And she would be running out the door, so we could get the Venice logo on some panties!

KIM:

She literally was at a political fundraiser and Crystal and I were like, “Oh, My God.  Well, we want to post this picture and can you get a logo for it?”  Here she was at this fundraiser and she did it.  She was so excited to do it.

CRYSTAL:

She thinks about the show and the fans as well.  That goes for Leslie Penny as well.  She worked so tirelessly on this.  Well, between Kimmy, Leslie and Kim, we wanted to make it the fan’s show.  I have told you that from the beginning and they have all answered emails directly. We are here… someone is going to get back to you.

KIM:

I don’t think people realize the honest to God’s truth that the month of December when we had some issues with our store that did not go right our fan club president and other women got involved with it. Crystal and I were at a college gymnasium with the girl’s volleyball team who volunteered to help us…

© Adam Bouska

CRYSTAL:

We would like to thank them, too… (Laughs)

KIM:

We were literally packing panties and T-shirts for twelve hours.  I would be calling people going, “Hi, this is Kimmy from Venice and I have your order here.  Crystal just needs to know, did you get your boxers?”  And they were like, “What?”  My living room during the Christmas holidays had tables of all the merchandise, and while everyone was Christmas shopping, Michelle Carter and Crystal and I, were in my living room packing things up and taking them to the post office.  Not really glamorous!

CRYSTAL:

We got to know a lot of people on Twitter doing that, and they understood. We would say, “We are telling you right now…we are packing your panties”.   I want to mention Maria Macina and Jay Bungay, and Lane Crouse, these are all my Guiding Light friends.  I called Maria, who was one of the GL producers, a week before Christmas, and she comes from a very close Italian family, and Christmas is a big Italian family day.  I did not know about this, but I am trying to get myself invited next year! (Laughs)  She has got to cook for twenty- some people.  I call her the week before in a panic and I say, “Maria, what if I flew you out here the week before Christmas, and what if you edit episodes 3 to 12.  How would that be?”  We were not going to make our deadline, and she said, “I heard the panic in your voice, and of course, I would do it.”  And so she left her family with her parent’s blessings, and stayed in my home with me.  I watched her edit episode 3 to 12 in five days with no sleep.  And then Maria suggested Jay and Lane.  Jay is a miraculous finishing editor who does amazing things with audio, and Lane is amazing as a color correcting artist.

MICHAEL:

They did it for free?

CRYSTAL:

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No. I actually paid Maria, Jay and Laney.  I gave them some money because I didn’t feel I could just pull them in on Christmas and not pay them.  I will say, Jay wanted to be part of this from the beginning, and Maria is my friend and would have done it for nothing. But I felt like I should compensate them for that.  The point is, this show got out on time because of those three people.  And we got a great new company and redesigned our entire website.  We have a lot of good stuff happening in the next two to three weeks.  It’s very functional.  It’s beautiful and its with a company called Purple Crayons out of Colorado, and they have been very helpful.  The bottom line is, it’s been the fans who have been understanding, forgiving, and patient, and that is not lost on us.  So, I want to put that out there, and let them know about these other people who really wanted it to work for them, too.

KIM:

Actually, when Maria was out here I proposed, I did.  I walked in and said, “You need to marry me.”  And I think she thought I was crazy.  It was the first time I met her and I proposed to her.  That is the kind of tight schedule we were on.  I really did propose to her when I saw the work she was doing.  I literally sat in front of the computer and wept.  Crystal and I were so tired, but we kept saying, “We can’t let the fans down.”  And they were and are so loyal, and it’s almost unbelievable!

MICHAEL:

Never have I seen in 20 years of covering daytime, what you have managed to do with Venice. You truly deserve so much credit to cultivate the audience, and do an online show.  It was almost like a labor of love between the fans, the press, and the both of you. This project had such far reaching effects going on with it, and everybody wanted the same end goal; that this show would be up there, successful, and to do the story you wanted to tell.

KIM:

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Overall, I am proud of what we accomplished with what we had, and all the bumps that hit us that we weren’t expecting.  For me, to watch the actor’s work, and when I tweet out, ‘they are a writer’s dream’, I mean that from the bottom of my heart.  When you write something it is close to your heart, and Crystal and I spent so much time together with it.  When you have someone like Jordan Clarke…and this is one of my favorite moments, ever.  My phone rings and its Jordan.  He goes, “Hey Kimmy, its Jordan.  I think I am going to buzz cut my hair and grow a moustache.  Don’t tell Crystal.  I want to surprise her.  Don’t you think that would be great for the Colonel?”  Well, it took my breath away.  The actors invested so much and it was certainly not lost on us.  And when Nadia Bjorlin came in an hour before shooting, her response was, “I read the script and I liked her.  I will be there an hour.”  This was an episode Crystal was directing and it was she in make-up talking to her about Lara.  I was concerned.  I said, “What about all the dialog?”  And Crystal said, “Don’t worry about the dialog, she works in daytime.”  Then I watched Crystal direct Nadia and Jessica, and let me tell you, they have the hottest love scene in season two!

CRYSTAL:

Kim will be icing the nipples in her own unique way for that one.

KIM:

…With my assistant, Brandon Beemer.  He is my new boy toy.  I want to say my girlfriend is completely supportive of it!  She likes him, too.  (Laughs)

MICHAEL:

Of all the things that people were questioning one was what went on with the server issues?

CRYSTAL:

We got hard fast education on streaming and servers and bandwidth, and it was a crash course in web design.

KIM:

Crystal and I were on the phone together, if we are not in the same room every night, while all this was happening with trying to fix it and reaching out to people we know.  Look, we know we went to Amazon and went with Cloud Servers and we went with ten of them to prevent crashing.  But there was no way for us to know we needed ten Cloud Servers until Purple Crayon told us.  And when you are thinking, “OK,” and when you go to streaming servers, I don’t think that anybody could handle these amounts of fans, and so it was a great problem to have and we have worked it out.  Literally, there were moments where we were like, “Holy Shit!  Is this really happening?”

MICHAEL:

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I remember so vividly the first night the site launched, when so many people tried to view the first episode of Venice and could not get on to see it!

KIM:

It was happening, and we did not know it, because we were in Las Vegas hanging out with 200 Guiding Light/Otalia die hard fans.  We had DVD’s for them of Venice. So we are sitting there going, “Well, I hope everyone is enjoying the show,” while we were watching our phones as they were ringing off the hook.

CRYSTAL:

…and I am thinking, “It’s probably our families telling us how good we are.” (Laughs)

KIM:

And we get this call, “Half the friggin country can’t get on!”

MICHAEL:

What did you do when you heard that?

KIM:

You know while we were there trying to show the love, it was an amazing gathering and behind the scenes it was wild.  We spent two and half-hours with the fans, and then we went upstairs and had every single phone in use.  I had one of our other good friends there, and my girlfriend was with us and all four phones were dialing, Leslie, Kim, and everybody going, “What the hell is going on?  How can we fix this?”  And that was what we did for three hours.  Then I was like, “Crystal, we have to go downstairs and gamble.” The next morning at 5AM my phone went off and it was Crystal.  She says, “OK, I ordered coffee and here is what we are going to do!”  And that was our December.

CRYSTAL:

Courtesy/Venice

And that is when the education began for me, and that is when I knew I needed to understand thoroughly what it takes to do a web show.  It’s one thing to come up with a marketing plan, but it became about how do we technically pull this off?  In the end, it was the best thing that could have happened, because we now know what we are talking about when we talk.

MICHAEL:

You received pushback from many online soap competitors and critics for charging a subscription rate of $9.99 for fans to see the webisodes.  Looking back, do you still think this was a good idea?

CRYSTAL:

I was on Twitter and I asked, “What would you pay?  Would you pay $9.99?”  I don’t regret our decision.  It helped fund season two.

KIM:

It’s extremely costly to stream video.

CRYSTAL:

And I don’t think people realize that.  We offered a streaming subscription for $9.99; we extended it an additional two months. That is a lot of money for those extra two months, but we wanted to give people that.

KIM:

It’s expensive to dedicate ten servers, and even if we don’t use all ten. Crystal and I decided, “Look we don’t want crashing, and what’s it going to take for us on a Friday night to know that we can have a drink?”  And so the magic number was ten servers.  We pay for them, and when people are watching the episodes over and over and over 50 times, those cost us money, and you have to be able to do something to be able to get them the show that they want.

CRYSTAL:

The other thing is this: I literally had people sending me checks for thousands of dollars with my name on them.  I had one woman offer me $10,000 because she wanted to support the show.  I sent the checks back, except for one where I may have gone shopping. (Laughs)   The idea was if they are so supportive of this, I said, “Take your check and we are going to open a store, and if you want to support the show then go buy a T-shirt.”   So no, it seemed to me like $ 9.99 was a good price point.

MICHAEL:

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So how did it work out for you in season one?  Were you able to make a profit for Venice?

KIM:

I think we are one of the only web series operating in the black, and to make a big strong point by being in the black, we are rolling that into season two.  We have not seen one dime.  Crystal acted the whole time and directed.  I wrote the first season and the second season with no money.  Every dime that we have made is going back into the show.

CRYSTAL:

And the crew and the actors last season did it all for free.  Going into season two, the hope is, to be able to pay the actors and keep them under contract for season two and three, and hopefully, to be able to get sponsorship.  And we are putting the media kit together now.  We will see where it goes.  My hope and my goal is to give season two away for free to everybody.  Honestly, it’s the loyalty to the fans.  I said if we can do the subscription for season one, we might be able to pull off-season two for free.  They trusted me and it’s looking like that is what’s going to happen. 

MICHAEL:

Many fans were curious and asked me if this was the script you wrote Kimmy that we saw on-screen in season one, or did the actors influence or change the script?

CRYSTAL:

It’s very interesting.  I learned from soaps that the actors are not allowed to talk to the writers, and that is just how it goes.  That is not what we would do.  Just like the Twitter community that has come together for this, we are very open and very available, and what ever you have to offer, we want to hear it.  I improvise all the time.  I am the worst person, and I did not say everything that was in Kimmy’s script.  We added stuff.

KIM:

And it all worked, and I come from a different viewpoint.  I love actors and I love collaborating with them, and I worked with every single actor before the final script went to them.  Then on set, somebody was feeling something.  Crystal and I said, “Change it up.”  I am not an egomaniac.  I am not married to anything.  There is nothing that anybody did that switched the scope of where we were going in a scene.  If you don’t say the exact words, I don’t care.  For the actors, they were so respectful.

CRYSTAL:

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There was a scene with Gina Tognoni and Galen Gering and Galen said, “Fuck” and Gina on set went, “Are we allowed to say that?” And we went, “Yup. You sure can.”  (Laughs)

MICHAEL:

Are you thinking of longer webisodes for season two?

CRYSTAL:

Yes, I am thinking 12 minutes webisodes for season two.

MICHAEL:

Kimmy, it would then seem fans would get a bonus, in that you would have to write more story to accommodate the longer webisodes?

KIM:

This season’s script is longer and it’s been a joy.  And the hardest part is, it’s very hard to develop a character in six minutes.  Crystal and I know the big picture and translating it on screen is another thing.  It really helped having seasoned professionals, being the actors, and what they added with their own pizzazz.  In writing season two, you know what you can write to, which is their strength.  I know what they can deliver.  My dream would be to have Venice be a thirty-minute series, if I could have this cast.  You are dealing with what you are dealing with… the constraints of the web.  Season two will be written a bit differently, but when you get those extra couple of minutes to flesh out some more, it enhances the experience.

MICHAEL:

As head writer, what would you say were the defining on-screen moments of season one for you?

KIM:

Courtesy/Venice

For me, there were several, but my favorite line in the entire show is when Gina stands up to the Colonel.  I was watching the monitor and I was speechless.  It was a great moment and I cried.  It was shot in my home which doubles as the Colonel’s house, and first of all the delivery was ridiculous.  I think it resonated with so many people.  The letters we got after that took my breath away, and the other moments for me personally, that were great I have said it before.  It was the moment Crystal was directing Jessica and Nadia.  I stepped into friend mode.  I know she has wanted to do this for so long, and for her to be so good and organized was something to see. I watched the way she treated those two and I thought: “My God, what a great moment and for me to watch her do that.”  There is a moment when you think, “Oh God, she has been Jessica’s girl for all this time.”  How are you going to say, “Now this is what I want you to do, so that now you guys have this amazing moment?”  And she did so, without any regard to where she was with Jessica.  I also loved the moments with Ani and Gina on the beach together where they were talking, and it was so painful and real, and I loved the dates.  I loved Galen and Hillary and Crystal’s chemistry, and the love scene with Crystal and Jessica.

CRYSTAL:

I was thinking about it today, and I can’t wait to backlight the love scene in season two. It’s going to be beautiful; it’s Nadia Bjorlin, and it’s a lot of pretty.

KIM:

And there is a whole lot of ‘pretty’ coming on the show.  There is a lot to look at in season two.

CRYSTAL:

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In regards to season two, we are going to see that Gina is going to start her healing process, and a lot of stuff is going to happen between she and the Colonel.  We are going to discover some not so attractive things about Lara, and Ani is going to figure a few things out.  There is a beautiful story being played by Galen and Gina, and then Van is coming back to town, who is Guya’s son.  And…. he is a nasty sexy bastard!

KIM:

Season two is going to turn Venice upside down a bit.  It’s been really fun for me and Crystal to break out story together.

MICHAEL:

How many new characters can we expect?

KIM:

Three, and then there are going to be some characters that are going to be in a couple of episodes that I think people are going to really, really, really love.  Lucky us!

MICHAEL:

Have you cast anybody?  Can you let one out of the bag for us?

CRYSTAL:

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Yup!  Jeff Branson is coming on board as Van!  So it will be Gina and Jeff and Galen, in a story, and that is going to be messy.

KIM:

I am not going to say he is bad.

CRYSTAL:

He has something to resolve.

MICHAEL:

Well, he better not bail on Venice this time!  Last time you cast him as your brother and he could not do season one!

CRYSTAL:

Jeff Branson is a friend of mine.  I am going to kick his ass if he takes another show this time! (Laughs).   We also have some great people who have approached us about directing.  I ran into Susan Flannery at Frances Reid’s celebration.  I asked Susan, “I would like you to come direct a little bit,” but I made it clear she was not getting the nipples scene.  She was so gracious and said, “I would love to do it.”  I am also going to direct more in season two.

MICHAEL:

So when can the fans expect to see season two?  What is the plan for production and launch?

CRYSTAL:

I am thinking it’s going to be first week of June and July, but what we are going to do is fly out our team and they will be editing while we shoot.  I think by the end of July we can have all the episodes shot and mostly edited.  So probably August, it will hit the web.

MICHAEL:

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Will this season see the same amount of webisodes?

CRYSTAL:

Yes.  We are still shooting for 12 episodes of 12 minutes each.

MICHAEL:

I want to ask the two of you since you brought Venice to life for the LGBT community and the mainstream, what did you think of the abrupt firing of Brett Claywell and Scott Evans on One Life to Live, and the decision by ABC and One Life to end the Kish storyline?

CRYSTAL:

I was surprised by that.  Here is something I want to say; when I saw the success of Otalia, a love story, these grown women fondled each others knuckles more then they should ever have to, without being able to move forward, and after that there seemed to be certainly Nuke on World Turns, who were already there and going strong.  But there certainly seemed to be this emergence of male gay love stories…Y&R, and then One Life.  I was very happy to see any kind of story being told with same-sex characters.  It is very disheartening and I was so disappointed.  I don’t know the circumstances and I know everyone is dealing with budgets.  It seemed to be working and so I don’t get that.

KIM:

I am actually, as a gay person, disgusted and saddened by it.  Not only was it working, for the life of me…

Courtesy/Venice

CRYSTAL:

…. My point is that the Otalia coupling got so much attention…it makes me uncomfortable to think, and I am not suggesting this is what happened, but that people would think or create gay characters for daytime and then, so what happened?  You have to play it out, and it has to be something that is taken seriously.

KIM:

Don’t abandon it.

MICHAEL:

I have had so many conversations, talked on this subject so many times, but it feels like the gay audience feels like they get to a certain place and then dropped from mainstream television culture, and no one follows through, and rightfully so, they should be upset.  Then you have Middle America housewives with families also, who fall in love with these same-sex couples and tell me they are their favorites on the show, and yet they are ceasing to exist on daytime television for various reasons.

CRYSTAL:

To a point, it’s one of things I appreciated about Guiding Light with Otalia.  They made it a love story.  However, the lack of a kiss was disgusting and ridiculous.

KIM:

And they put out a love story, and the sad part about it is, a love story is a love story.  People say, how do you write gay characters?  I write all characters the same in the regard that love is love.  I will hold to that until I am in the ground.  I don’t care who you are, or your gender, or your color.  If you are going to invest in the same sex storyline then please, dear God, the gay community is in these relationships and you can’t just abandon it.

CRYSTAL:

I had a fear when I was working on Guiding Light when I realized we were touching foreheads.  I understand building suspense and longing, but then the realization hit me that they are never going to let these two women kiss.  And I thought, in some small, small way, that I appreciate that Otalia can go off.  I was afraid of what would happen if something ridiculous happens that Olivia decides all of a sudden, “I am heterosexual.” You know what I am saying?  I just did not want it to be debased in any way.  I love where people go with that, and that is my one small gratitude about the show being canceled was that I was concerned about what would have happened.

MICHAEL:

Season two… tease it for me?

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KIM:

I think there is going to be some surprise for the fans.  They are going to see all different sides of lead characters that they did not know existed.  There are secrets, lies, and deceptions.

MICHAEL:

And sex scenes?

CRYSTAL:

Listen, I am determined to get Nadia Bjorlin’s nipple.  I have written the words, “Close up on Nadia’s nipple”.

MICHAEL:

Crystal, you have something you wanted to announce about your company, and some changes and some new directions?

CRYSTAL:

Yes. We have had an amazing journey this year, and obviously the fans have been the only reason we have been successful, but as Open Book Productions we have another show that is in pre-production that will involve some of the same cast members of Venice. Open Book Productions, now consists of just me and Kim.  Hope is no longer with us, but we wish her all the best.

KIM:

We are very excited.  We have a show in development, and this is something we are going to shoot along with Venice, and it’s more of a reality show, and going to involve Twitter.  Both of us have been reading scripts, and have been taking meetings with other people who want us to produce their stuff, and there are some other things on our development slate.  So, Open Book Productions is moving forward.

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CRYSTAL:

I will tell you that they do cater to the LGBT community and I want to be clear about that.

KIM:

Yes, they do.  And just for a second, I want to set the record straight.  Gina is not giving up her toaster.  Gina is not going to be with a man!

CRYSTAL:

She has been gay since she can remember!  Jesus! (Laughs)